---------- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v7.07 Title: Orange Dessert Wine Categories: RaceNet, Wildgame, Beverages Servings: 1 5 ea Oranges, Louisiana Naval 4 c Brandy 2 ea Lemons 1 ea Vanilla bean 5 qt Wine, dry white 1 ea Piece (1/2) orange rind, dry 2 lb Sugar Grate the skins of the oranges and lemons and reserve. Quarter the fruit and place in a demi-john or other large container (crock or glass). Pour in the wine, then add the grated skins, sugar, brandy, vanilla bean and piece of dried orange rind. CLose off the jar and store in a cool dark place for 40 days. Strain through cloth and bottle. Serve chilled. ----- ---------- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v7.07 Title: Elderberry Wine- Vin de Fleurs du Sareau Categories: RaceNet, Wildgame, Beverages Servings: 1 2 ga Elderberries, ripe, washed 1 ea Lemon, juice of 2 1/2 ga Water 1 ea Yeast, cake, or env dry 1/4 lb Sugar Mash elderberries well in a large (5 gal) pot. Add water. Bring to a boil and simmer for 15 minutes. Slowly stir in sugar and lemon juice. After 15 more minutes at simmer, remove from heat and allow to cool enough to handle. Strain through collander, then through tea strainer, then through cloth into large container, a crock or plastic/glass water container. In a cup of LUKEWARM water dissolve the yeast. Pour into berries and cover well with cloth. Allow to ferment for 10 days. Next, carefully, so as to leave dregs on bottom, pour fermenting juice into gal. jugs. Cork tightly, store in cool, dark 3 months. Draw the wine from the sediment after 3 mos. No aging req'd. ----- MMMMM----- Recipe via UNREGISTERED Meal-Master (tm) v8.01 Title: Spiced Cherry Wine Mix with Recipe Categories: Crs, Mix, Gift, Beverage, Posted Yield: 1 servings 1/2 c Dried cherries 1 c Sugar 4 Cinnamon sticks 12 Whole cloves MMMMM---------------------SPICED CHERRY WINE-------------------------- 1 pk Mix 1 Lemon, sliced thinly 2 Bottles dry red wine Mix: Combine dry ingredients and store in an airtight container. Spiced Cherry Wine: Heat all ingredients, reserving a few lemon slices, but do not allow to boil. Keep warm over low heat 1 hour. Serve warm garnished with remaining lemon slices. Source: The Perfect Mix by Diane Phillips ISBN 0-688-12104-7 Typed by Carolyn Shaw 11-94 MMMMM At a rather festive tasting dinner (recipes follow in cooking conferences only): Savennieres '79, Clos du Papillon (Loire): Still pale-colored, good acid. Quite dry. After a bit of sulfur on opening, a floral nose, a little cooked on the palate. Medium finish, a little lemon droppish, a little medicinal. Somewhat thin, but not at all unattractive. Angelo Papagni Chardonnay '78 (Madera): Dark golden - a terrific tropical fruit bouquet. Unctuous texture, low acid, high glycerin, some oak - reminiscent of some more recent Australian efforts. A little bitter with a not unpleasant hint of oxidation. Huge, unbelievably long finish: easily five minutes. Fruit - lychees and apricots throughout. Why isn't more wine available from the area around Fresno? Wine wine, I mean, not Wild Irish Rose. I drank two glasses (which means that it wasn't half bad) and used about 1/4 of the bottle in the sauce for the fish. Puligny-Montrachet '90, St. Aubin: Thinnish, light straw color. Very delicate flowery nose, followed by a citrusy flavor. Medium finish. Served with, and a bit dominated by, the fish course of shad roe etuve in butter and one giant prawn per person, sauce of Angelo Papagni Chardonnay and cream. Went better with the vegetables - zucchini sauteed in EVOO, garlic mashed potatoes, and carrots and ginger in Pernod: this last dish brought out a latent spiciness in the wine. Vougeot '57 Clos de la Perriere, Lupe-Cholet: When the cork was popped, the whole room filled with a fruity aroma. Opening, disappointingly, a little moldy (wet cardboard, perhaps) but with tremendous fruit - which kept evolving throughout the evening; opinions ranged among plum, apricot, sour cherry, with different flavors coming up at different times. Color deep burgundy, gradually fading but still strong everywhere but the very edge after two hours. Moldy-musty smell dissipated in about 15 minutes, replaced by an agreeable cedary-animalish scent. Fruit (I thought sour cherry) predominated on the palate; some tannin and strong acid. A rich meaty roundness that went well with the roast chicken. More complexities showed with the cheeses, which were a Crottin de Chavignol (which I didn't try, being put off by the strong woolly odor), an aged goat's milk Gouda (which I didn't like, but which went okay), a 10-year-old ordinary Gouda, which was terrific and lent a certain rich background to the wine, and a 3-year-old Parmigiano. This wine kept changing over two hours but stayed vigorous until the decanter was empty. Finish over a minute, with plums and cherries and cedar throughout. Sandeman Imperial Corregidor '94 bottling, blend: Slightly raw, with alcohol just barely subjugated by figgy dried fruit and wood; medium sweetness. Deep sherry color, long finish. A vigorous, attractive wine, clearly related to but without the finesse of Sandeman Imperial Corregidor '75 bottling of '95 unblended cask: After a hundred years, the alcohol is tamed, and the wine is totally harmonious. Along with the same flavors evident in the younger Corregidor, there was a warm toasted nut aspect. The finish of this was not so long nor so powerful as that of the younger wine, but here was a drink you could drink and drink without becoming tired of it (if you had the opportunity). This was one of 660 bottles filled in honor of Arthur Fiedler's 80th birthday in 1975. I was invited to make a zabaglione out of the rest of the old Corregidor (there are still several left in the host's cellar, and they have to be used up), but I declined. ------------- Recipe Extracted from Meal-Master (tm) v6.14 ------------------ Title: Carla's Grape Wine Categories: Beverages Servings: 1 2 ga grapes, ripe, washed 2 1/2 ga water 1/4 lb sugar 1 tsp lemon, juice of 1 ea yeast, cake, or env, dry Mash grapes well in a large (5 gal) pot. Add water. Bring to a boil and simmer for 15 minutes. Slowly stir in sugar and lemon juice. After 15 more minutes at simmer, remove from heat and allow to cool enough to handle. Strain through collander, then through tea strainer, then through cloth into large container, a crock or plastic/glass water container. In a cup of LUKEWARM water dissolve the yeast. Pour into grapes and cover well with cloth. Allow to ferment for 10 days. Next, carefully, so as to leave dregs on bottom, pour fermenting juice into gal. jugs. Cork tightly, store in cool, dark 3 months. Draw the wine from the sediment after 3 mos. No aging req'd. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------- Recipe Extracted from Meal-Master (tm) v6.14 ------------------ Title: Elderberry Wine- Vin de Fleurs du Sareau Categories: Beverages Servings: 1 2 ga elderberries, ripe, washed 2 1/2 ga water 1/4 lb sugar 1 ea lemon, juice of 1 ea yeast, cake, or env dry Mash elderberries well in a large (5 gal) pot. Add water. Bring to a boil and simmer for 15 minutes. Slowly stir in sugar and lemon juice. After 15 more minutes at simmer, remove from heat and allow to cool enough to handle. Strain through collander, then through tea strainer, then through cloth into large container, a crock or plastic/glass water container. In a cup of LUKEWARM water dissolve the yeast. Pour into berries and cover well with cloth. Allow to ferment for 10 days. Next, carefully, so as to leave dregs on bottom, pour fermenting juice into gal. jugs. Cork tightly, store in cool, dark 3 months. Draw the wine from the sediment after 3 mos. No aging req'd. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subj : May Wine fm> Do you have a recipe for May Wine?? What else can you use fm> Sweet Woodruff fm> for? I just planted some too..it sounds like I will have to fm> move it fm> though, since it is planted in a container box. Simple recipe....just put a sprig of Sweet Woodruff into a bottle of white wine--can't remember the kind recommended, possibly someone else will give you a tip there. Don't leave it in long, only for an hour or two. Serve chilled. I've had it served in a glass with strawberries. In the container box it won't spread, but I don't know how it would winter over--if you are in an area where you even HAVE winter. Here, it survives in the ground very nicely, dying back in the fall and coming up in droves in the spring. Subj : May Wine JK> Simple recipe....just put a sprig of Sweet Woodruff into a bottle of JK> white wine--can't remember the kind recommended, possibly someone else JK> will give you a tip there. Don't leave it in long, only for an hour JK> or two. Serve chilled. I've had it served in a glass with JK> strawberries. Usually it's made with a German-type sweet white wine such as Moselle or Riesling--I understand the recipe is of German origin--they call it Maiwein. ---------- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v7.07 Title: Ginger Beer Categories: Beverages Servings: 1 1 ea Ginger root 1 1/2 lb Sugar 1 ea Lemon, grated rind of 1 ga Water, boiling 2 oz Cream of tartar 1 ea Yeast, envelope Grate and thoroughly mash the ginger root in a bowl. Place in a large pot and add all ingredients except the yeast. Stir until sugar and cream of tartar is dissolved. Allow mixture to cool, then add yeast which has been started ( dissolved) in a little lukewarm water. Cover tightly for 6 hours, then filter first through a tea strainer or similar, then through cloth. Bottle and cap tightly, sealed. Place in dark, cool (60 degree) place for two weeks. Chill fully before opening to drink. ----- ---------- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v7.07 Title: Orange Dessert Wine Categories: Beverages Servings: 1 5 ea Oranges, Louisiana Naval 4 c Brandy 2 ea Lemons 1 ea Vanilla bean 5 qt Wine, dry white 1 ea Piece (1/2) orange rind, dry 2 lb Sugar Grate the skins of the oranges and lemons and reserve. Quarter the fruit and place in a demi-john or other large container (crock or glass). Pour in the wine, then add the grated skins, sugar, brandy, vanilla bean and piece of dried orange rind. CLose off the jar and store in a cool dark place for 40 days. Strain through cloth and bottle. Serve chilled. ----- ------------- Recipe Extracted from Meal-Master (tm) v6.14 ------------------ Title: Dandelion Wine Categories: Dandelion Wine Servings: 4 2 ts dandelion flowers 4 lb sugar 1 ts cake, dissolved in warm water 2 ea or 3 Oranges, squeezed and cut into chunks 2 ea or 3 Lemons, squeezed and cut into chunks 1 x Raisins (15 oz.) 1 ea lon Hot Water Boil water and pour into a crock or container (do not use aluminum). Wash yellow blossoms and add to hot water. Stir and let stand covered for three days. Strain and put liquid back in the crock. Add raisins, sugar, lemons, oranges and dissolved yeast. Stir well every day for 4 to 6 weeks, until fermenting stops. Strain through a strainer, then through a cheese cloth. Pour into a gallon container and let set until sediment settles. Transfer with a plastic tube from one container, making sure sedimentt is left in first container. When wine is clear, bottle with parafin wax. SOURCE:Syracuse Herald-American 5/24/92 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 39 of 42 - 38 + 41 From : Rick Duff 1:226/600 Thu 03 Mar 94 07:12 To : Bryan Mierau Subj : hello ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ BM>Hello Rick, BM> Also what is the ussual price from a good floor corker, and BM>filter BM>system down where you are? Just comparing to see how badly we get the BM>shaft. Hey Bryan! Sounds like we're using the same type of kits. Mine are made in Canada. Sounds like about the same price given the exchange rate too, I thought perhaps they charged too much down here, and we Americans were the ones getting the shaft. A floor corker down here runs from $70 - 100, depending on if you get the portugal module or the italian. I'm really considering getting one. Filter systems are tricky... we don't have a lot of shops around, (2 in our metro of 1.8 million), and they don't have a very good selection. I haven't seen any filter systems locally, but mail order or 2 hours away they run about $150 - $300. I haven't really considered getting any yet. I filter the first and sometimes second racking through a funnel with a nice filter/screen. What I can't find down here in the states is the premium concentrate kits, that include the concentrate bag, but also the bag of real juice. That would be nice. I think I'm going to get some Pinot Noir to start this weekend, but really don't need any more wine as I've still got 50 gallons aging. I've also got some beer to start (Canadian Lager). Nice chatting with you. rick.duff@asacomp.com --- þ VbReader 2.01 #NR þ Opposite of Pro is Con, Opposite of PROgress,CONgress? --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'h' * Origin: ASA CompuHelp "We're A Step Ahead" (614)476-4058 (1:226/600) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 34 of 36 - 33 From : John Soanes 1:153/920 Fri 25 Feb 94 23:23 To : Verona Leslie Subj : more on sediment ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ On 02-17-94 Verona Leslie wrote to Marc Richard... VL> This Buon Vino filter.... is it gravity run? Let me know more. You should have him provide you with a place to buy that unit, here in B.C. it runs about $250.00. Buying from Toronto will save you the PST. There is also another type of manual unit, using a pressure tank and filter plates. It sells for about $90 out here. ___ * OFFLINE 1.56 * Remember, even if you win the rat race; you're still a rat --- Maximus/2 2.01wb * Origin: Bear Garden * Cloverdale, B.C. - Canada * (604) 574-0906 (1:153/920) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 33 of 36 - 6 + 34 From : John Soanes 1:153/920 Fri 25 Feb 94 22:41 To : Verona Leslie Subj : more on sediment ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ On 02-14-94 Verona Leslie wrote to William H. Notation... VL> by the sediment. The red seems a bit off now (stuff that is VL> over a year old and in the bottles). Others have told me that VL> I was probably disturbing the sediment. In the last batch I wa VL> unbelievably careful! I think my next venture will the the VL> extension in time! I usually will filter a kit wine, mainly because there is no benefit in not filtering it. The kits, even the premium ones containing pure varietal juices, use additives to manipulate tannin levels, etc.; which gives them the completion speed. Any residual additives could introduce off aroma/flavour to the wine after a year, it's impossible to remove all of them using finings. You either need to filter or drink faster! ___ * OFFLINE 1.56 * Start a download. Get a beer... Multi-tasking --- Maximus/2 2.01wb * Origin: Bear Garden * Cloverdale, B.C. - Canada * (604) 574-0906 (1:153/920) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 36 of 37 From : John Soanes 1:153/920 Fri 25 Feb 94 22:16 To : William H. Notation Subj : filters and personal pre ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ On 02-15-94 William H. Notation wrote to Marc Richard... WH> out that "Red wines are normally expected to throw a sediment in WH> bottle." WH> And as bottle age increases, even a white wine can leave a "dusting". WH> Don't think of decanting a wine as a sign of failure. Decanting is WH> just helping a fine wine to "put its best foot forward" when being WH> presented to your guests. I'm with you, I don't filter my red wines. By the time I bulk store them four to six months (racking 3-4 times) the only thing left to filter out is the flavour and texture. I tend to filter "kit" wines and whites, mainly to polish and enhance the brilliance. ___ * OFFLINE 1.56 * Start a download. Get a beer... Multi-tasking --- Maximus/2 2.01wb * Origin: Bear Garden * Cloverdale, B.C. - Canada * (604) 574-0906 (1:153/920) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 70 of 74 - 54 From : Marc Richard 1:163/403 Thu 10 Mar 94 22:16 To : John Soanes Subj : more on sediment ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Sorry it took me so long to answer You can get a wine filter very easily from the store I work for. If you're interested, I'll give you a wonderful deal on a Buon Vino Mini Jet wine filter. For the great price 129$ all taxes included!!! Just to describe it a little, it has a small electric motor, forces the wine threw three filters at a time. There are 3 types of filters from coarse to fine. Generally speaking of set of medium fine pads is more than enough to remove 75% of the yeast content. For the extra 25% you might as well live with. No filter, even the professional ones like my boses that cost 5K and forces the wine threw 24 filters at a time can ensure a complete removal of all yeast. If you're interested write to us at Musca Wine Pressing 969 Sommerset West Ottawa Ontario K1R 6R8 Also if want, and can send you all pamphets we have, that describes with better acuracy the system I'm talking about. CD-ROMS now that's a rip-off. --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'h' * Origin: Akasha's Bubble Bath & Magic Potion Emporium (1:163/403) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 19 of 25 - 12 From : Bryan Mierau 1:140/42 Sat 19 Feb 94 22:26 To : Victor Sansoucie Subj : hello ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VS> I'm new to this echo and thought it appropriate to introduce myself. VS> allot of the "old timers" tell me that making a wine from concentrate VS> (which is what I use for the most part) is not REAL wine making. The VS> only way to make wine, so I'm told, is to smash a grape and let it sit. VS> anyone have any thoughts on this? Hello Vic, I am also new to this echo, And I think that making wine from kits just saves you the step of preparing the fruit. I have made wine both ways for the past couple years. I have never made a wine from grapes though, but I would supposed that to get the correct grapes for the proper wines would cost a great deal of money compaired to the kits. I have made wines out of berries that I can pick in the region, which have a unique flavor which can not be had from a kit. I would see this as the major advantage. Bryan --- Maximus 2.01wb * Origin: Martensville Tradewars (1:140/42) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 22 of 24 From : Victor Sansoucie 1:141/545 Mon 21 Feb 94 09:42 To : Derrick Chapman Subj : concentrates ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ On 02-19-94 Derrick Chapman wrote to Victor Sansoucie... DC> Concentrates produce a more consistent end result than an amateur DC> self-grown, DC> self-smashed grapes. Consistency is desirable if you DC> intend to reproduce a particularly good wine. I agree...some of the best wines I've made came from concentrates. and some of the wine I have had, that were made by the "old timers," was, "in my opinion" hardly palatable. DC> DC> Having said that, I'm about to plant a few grape vines in DC> my garden. Most of the yield will go into wine. But I DC> will still continue to make almost all of my wine from DC> concentrate, because I want my Chablis to taste like a DC> Chablis. I've read that it takes three to five years before a new vine will give you a good wine grape. good thing come to thoughs who wate....;-) vic- ___ * OFFLINE 1.54 * My favorite mythical creature? The honest politician. --- Maximus/2 2.01wb * Origin: XanSoft Development Support BBS (1:141/545) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 28 of 29 From : Victor Sansoucie 1:141/545 Wed 23 Feb 94 07:38 To : Bryan Mierau Subj : concentrats ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ On 02-19-94 Bryan Mierau wrote to Victor Sansoucie... BM> BM> Hello Vic, BM> BM> I am also new to this echo, And I think that making wine from BM> kits BM> just saves you the step of preparing the fruit. What I like about them is that you can make your wine the way you like it. The old way, you smash a grape, let it sit than taste it to see what you've got. if it was a bad year theres nothing you can do. most of the guys I know appose the use of additives of any kind things that may "fix" a bad wine are out of the question. with them wine making is, take what you get.. BW> I have made wines out BM> of berries that I can pick in the region, which have a BM> unique flavor which can not be had from a kit. I would see BM> this as the major advantage. BM> BM> Bryan About two years ago I made a wonderful Strawberry wine, made from fresh strawberrys. It was just the thing for thoses summer nights sitting on the porch. do to bad record keeping on my part, I have been unable to do it again. The last batch came out OK but nothing like the first. vic- ___ * OFFLINE 1.54 --- Maximus/2 2.01wb * Origin: XanSoft Development Support BBS (1:141/545) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 30 of 31 - 25 From : Rick Duff 1:226/600 Sun 27 Feb 94 10:14 To : Bryan Mierau Subj : hello ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ <<***** On 2/19/94, BRYAN MIERAU wrote to VICTOR SANSOUCIE: *****>> BM>past couple years. I have never made a wine from grapes though, but I BM>would BM>supposed that to get the correct grapes for the proper wines would cost a BM>great BM>deal of money compaired to the kits. I've made from both kits (Juice bags and cans), from fresh juice (just pressed), and from grapes (red). The juice bags run me $40 (US), the cans about $30, the fresh pressed about $22.50 - $25! The fresh stuff takes a lot longer though to make a good product. And the red from grapes (fermented on skins) can be a bit messy. rick.duff@asacomp.com --- þ VbReader 2.01 #NR þ Opposite of Pro is Con, Opposite of PROgress,CONgress? --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'e' * Origin: ASA CompuHelp "We're A Step Ahead" (614)476-4058 (1:226/600) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 33 of 36 - 6 + 34 From : John Soanes 1:153/920 Fri 25 Feb 94 22:41 To : Verona Leslie Subj : more on sediment ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ On 02-14-94 Verona Leslie wrote to William H. Notation... VL> by the sediment. The red seems a bit off now (stuff that is VL> over a year old and in the bottles). Others have told me that VL> I was probably disturbing the sediment. In the last batch I wa VL> unbelievably careful! I think my next venture will the the VL> extension in time! I usually will filter a kit wine, mainly because there is no benefit in not filtering it. The kits, even the premium ones containing pure varietal juices, use additives to manipulate tannin levels, etc.; which gives them the completion speed. Any residual additives could introduce off aroma/flavour to the wine after a year, it's impossible to remove all of them using finings. You either need to filter or drink faster! ___ * OFFLINE 1.56 * Start a download. Get a beer... Multi-tasking --- Maximus/2 2.01wb * Origin: Bear Garden * Cloverdale, B.C. - Canada * (604) 574-0906 (1:153/920) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 9 of 9 - 8 From : Jim Overstreet 1:396/1.5 Sat 12 Feb 94 08:18 To : David Hinerman Subj : bottles ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ David Hinerman wrote in a message to Mike Brown: > > paper then trim to size. I then make a runny paste out of > lfour and > water with a pinch of salt (beats me why it needs the salt, > DH> Mike, DH> DH> What is the longest you've had a label in place with this DH> kind of paste? I wonder what the shelf life is. (I'm not DH> doubting - it sounds like a good idea. Edible label DH> adhesive! (Grin)) DH> Hi Dave and Mike: I have had excellent luck with 1 percent lofat milk, thanks to someone on the Zymurgy echo. Try it, you won't believe how good it works. A 5 minute soak will get label off. I use a regular 1 1/2" soft-bristle paintbrush to spread the milk completely over the back, then just smooth it on, and wipe off the excess. Works on glass bottles and metal kegs just fine. However, packing the bottle in an ice chest full of ice is a no-no. The person who told me about it said to use skim milk for best results. --- timEd-B9 * Origin: Esc1.70 - Southport Point (1:396/1.5) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 5 of 5 From : Wolfriend 1:3800/17 Thu 17 Feb 94 15:51 To : Gary Cox Subj : bottles ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Had a good friend with a "fire sale" on his meads...House was broken into and fire set to cover it...lost a lot in it...so we bought alll his meads at inflated prices to help. His label? "CHateu Artemis" A xerox copy as well that looked really nice...On his "reserve" labels and stuff he'd go to a laser copier, like the Cannon laser copier 500 series that can do --anything!-- and gets a small color series of pics done on long paper, he then is able to make two-three labels per sheet...and at 1.25 a sheet he can do it as often as he wishes. --- Maximus 2.00 * Origin: THE BLACK EAGLE (1:3800/17) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 23 of 24 - 7 From : Verona Leslie 1:251/29 Sun 20 Feb 94 20:02 To : Mike Brown Subj : Making Wine ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ MB=}RE: The sediment in the wine... =}I have about two or three inches in the primary, about a quater to a =}half inch in the secondary carboy, sometimes I rack again into another =}carboy where I get a paper thin layer of sediment. I've never had any =}sediment that I've noticed in the bottles. If you do, I'd have to assume =}that something is wrong. Perhaps you didn't rack the wine or maybe you So far my method seems to be the same. =}bottled too soon. I leave the wine in the primary for about a week, rack =}into a carboy with airlock and leave it for three to five weeks to =}clear. If it still needs a bit of clearing, I'll rack again and leave it =}for a couple of weeks (that's what I meant by giving it time to do its =}thing). When it has cleared and there's no more sediment being =}deposited, I bottle. Now, this is definitely the difference. I have been bottleing once my SG has stablized, not the test of time..... Most of my wine is bottled in 4 weeks. Some I have left until six weeks. I think I will leave it longer the next time. Thanks for the encouragement! MB=}Beer comes in so many varieties, it's almost impossible to make them =}all, don't be afraid to try a new style, you may find you like it better =}than what you've had before. Well, it seems that we have almost drank the last batch. Beer sure doesn't last as long as wine! My husband didn't think it had enough of a "hoppy" taste. I liked it fine, a bit sweeter than what I am used to, but nice and light! Do you use any one particular brand? Verona * SLMR 2.0 * All wiyht. Rho sritched mg kegtops awound? --- WM v3.01/93-0965 * Origin: The DryWell. Lake Fletcher NS (902)860-2446 (1:251/29.0) Ä [26] Fidonet: ZYMURGY (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ ZYMURGY Ä Msg : 65 of 82 - 40 From : Steve Shanker 1:2613/321 Sat 12 Feb 94 17:09 To : Ethan Place Subj : Potassium Sorbate? ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ > Looking through my wine recipes, I noticed that one of them > called for potassium sorbate. I know it's used to keep > fermentation from re-starting once you have a stable wine, but 1/4 teaspoon / gallon of Sorbate, and add 40ppm of Potassium Metabisulfite... > Also, I've just started using bentonite to clear up my wines, Never had to use it...one alternative I remember is beaten egg white...but getting that into a carboy doesn't sound much easier. <<< Steve >>> --- * Origin: Take_A_Byte - Roch,NY ~~1 Byte = 2 Nibbles = 8 Bits ~~ (1:2613/321) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 12 of 13 - 10 From : Marc Richard 1:163/403 Sun 13 Feb 94 23:56 To : William H. Notation Subj : more on sediment ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ I dont understand the fuss over filtering. I filter my wines with a Buon Vino filter made in Toronto. There fairly inexpensive at apprx. 139$ Canadian. The avantages are numerous. You can cellar you're wines without the accumulation of mud in the bottom of the bottle. You dont have to excuse yourself from the table to secretly decante you're wines, resulting in waste. Furthermore I haven't noticed any changes in taste or lost of character from the wine. So I think its a good investment for anybody making a half decent product. I just re-read my message, and I feel boring all of a suddem Dont I have anything better to do then to defend a stupid wine filter. I think I'll go outside get a tan for second or two -38 below. --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'g' * Origin: Akasha's Bubble Bath & Magic Potion Emporium (1:163/403) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 13 of 13 - 9 From : Gary Cox 1:3603/2013 Sun 13 Feb 94 09:25 To : David Hinerman Subj : bottles ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ DH>What is the longest you've had a label in place with this kind of >paste? I wonder what the shelf life is. (I'm not doubting - it sounds >like a good idea. Edible label adhesive! (Grin)) David , I've found a better labeling system. I print my labels using paintbrush. I make them so that I can get two of them on a sheet of paper vertically. I then run them off on the copier at work. Bring them home, cut the page in half vertically and there I have two very nice labels that wrap completely around almost any size bottle. Now using double sided tape or a glue stick, I wrap the label around the bottle and stick the label to itself. These labels will hold up to immersion in a cooler or stay on the bottles for as long as there is beer in it. After the bottle is empty, the label rips off with no gluey residue. I've even started writing a rear label to explain the brewing process for the uninitiated. That's a little more complicated, figuring where to put the second label on the original when I copy. Different places for different size bottles. --- * OLX 1.51a * Apathy Error - don't bother pressing any keys. --- FidoPCB v1.4 beta * Origin: Mercury Opus * 10 Gigs/1200 Confs * 813-321-0734 (1:3603/20) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 14 of 18 From : Verona Leslie 1:251/29 Sat 12 Feb 94 15:57 To : Ethan Place Subj : Bentonite ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ =} Also, I've just started using bentonite to clear up my wines, and I was =}wondering how anyone got this stuff to mix in? It calls for 2 tblspns. to 1 =}cup of warm water, then says to add this solution to the wine. OK, I added =}bentonite to the water, and I got a mass vaguely resembling clay. I had to =}it to the carboy in chunks. (Which, by the way, did NOT mix in.) Any ideas? =}Thanks. I have the most wonderful thing for mixing up bentonite. First I started using a Tupperware Shaker, but the mixture just wanted to explode, then I remembered a small electric hand blender that was given to me ages ago. It's brand is a Moulinex, but I have seen other such beasts on the market. I just mix the bentonite with the warm water in a large stein and stix the blender in and turn it on! All the gases escape freely and it mixes to a wonderful consistancy. These little gadgets cost about $10.00, and this is my only use for it. It is a perfect small gift for a wine maker! Verona * SLMR 2.0 * Missing husband and cat.... reward for cat --- WM v3.01/93-0965 * Origin: The DryWell. Lake Fletcher NS (902)860-2446 (1:251/29.0) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 16 of 18 - 11 From : Rick Duff 1:226/600 Mon 14 Feb 94 07:13 To : Ken Farquharson Subj : 2ND FERMENTATION ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ <<***** On 2/8/94, KEN FARQUHARSON wrote to JIM MITCHELL: *****>> KF>I had commercial yeast ,equal parts of (EC-1118 and 71B-1122 from KF>Lallemand) Good yeasts! I'm not sure about mixing them though..... KF> At what temperature does one kill the yeast? My new warm spot KF> since we bought a new refrigerator is in front of a hot air KF> register . I checked a batch temp one morning and found it KF>to be 105 degrees F. Perhaps it got up to 110 F. during the KF>night. Would these temperatures kill my yeast? I would think these kinds of tempatures would kill flavor more than it would yeast! Another 10 degrees and you'll kill the alcohol too (ie. Boiling temp). rick.duff@asacomp.com --- þ VbReader 2.01 #NR þ Opposite of Pro is Con, Opposite of PROgress,CONgress? --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'e' * Origin: ASA CompuHelp "We're A Step Ahead" (614)476-4058 (1:226/600) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 17 of 17 - 4 From : Jim Mitchell 1:353/211 Sun 13 Feb 94 16:59 To : Verona Leslie Subj : Making Wine ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VL> merky. I'm not running the red through a filter. Is this a VL> necessity for red wine? All our red wine looks heavy. The one VL> blush I made, had the sediment similar to the white. I started running mine through a filter and don't think it hurts the flavour at all. In fact, I think seems to possibly mature a bit faster after it is filtered. Just a feeling. How can one really tell. I have never filtered any wine before this year but I came across a deal on a used filter machine so I picked it up. It has worked quite well for me. My neighbour has a lot (we are talking about a guy with a 100 gal. primary fermentor here) of one gal jugs. He just pours it into the one gal jugs and lets it sit in them. When he wants a bottle he pours off the 4 or 5 bottles in the gal. over his wash tub and dumps the last 2 ounces or so out. Give him clear wine. Of course he is just racking it one last time. --- Maximus/2 2.01wb * Origin: The Isle of Lucy BBS (1:353/211) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 18 of 19 - 12 From : Verona Leslie 1:251/29 Mon 14 Feb 94 22:36 To : William H. Notation Subj : more on sediment ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ WHN=}I hope that was supposed to read "shouldn't rush" . Ulk typo! Yes, I meant should not... WHN=}I wouldn't consider filtering except as a last resort, but I am not an =}expert on techique. I know that a couple of the intermediate sized winerie =}I've been in do filter at some point. Anyways, how long do you take for =}primary fermentation, secondary fermentation, and "rest" before actually =}bottling? Other factors that impact sediment could include use of yeast =}nutrients and temperature. In regards to the red, I found that it took a =}fair while for them to get crystal clear at a low temp (basement) while =}a couple bottles that ended up upstairs never cleared completely. =}Oh well, I'm trying to keep my typing to short bursts . All for now. I have been using kits. Primary is 7 to 13 days. Depending on the SG. I have been waiting until 1.000 to .995. Then racked to a carboy. From here I have waited and racked 1 to 3 times over a 3 to 4 week process. Then I add a clearing agent and let sit for another week. Being very careful not to disturb the sediment, I rack again and then bottle. Now, from what I can tell, I should just keep racking and waiting (maybe doubling my time in the carboy?). My white wine doesn't seem to be affected by the sediment. The red seems a bit off now (stuff that is over a year old and in the bottles). Others have told me that I was probably disturbing the sediment. In the last batch I was unbelievably careful! I think my next venture will the the extension in time! Thanks for the bits of wisdom! Verona * SLMR 2.0 * Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted! --- WM v3.01/93-0965 * Origin: The DryWell. Lake Fletcher NS (902)860-2446 (1:251/29.0) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 19 of 20 From : William H. Notation 1:141/1147 Tue 15 Feb 94 21:03 To : Marc Richard Subj : filters and personal preference ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ [MR] I dont understand the fuss over filtering. I filter my [MR] wines with a [message editting here...] [MR] character from the wine. So I think its a good investment [MR] for anybody making a half decent product. Marc - I guess calling filtering a "last resort" may have come across a shade on the negative side. While I personally do not filter my wine and am happy with the results, I wouldn't fault anyone for filtering in the quest for that "perfect" bottle. To produce a commercial grade product, filtering may become a necessity. However, some of the greatest wines in the world are not strangers to sediment in their bottles. Perhaps we need to make a distinction between "fermentation sludge" and sediment. The first one needs no further comment. The second, sediment does not in itself indicate shoddy technique or poor quality. Michael Broadbent points out that "Red wines are normally expected to throw a sediment in bottle." And as bottle age increases, even a white wine can leave a "dusting". Don't think of decanting a wine as a sign of failure. Decanting is just helping a fine wine to "put its best foot forward" when being presented to your guests. Well, that said... I think I'll be out to "catch some rays" with you. (38 degrees below... well, the beer will stay cold !) Bests - Bill --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: Black Brier Brewery BBS - Wolcott, CT U.S.A. 203-879-9891 (1:141/1147) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 6 of 10 From : Ethan Place 1:105/470 Wed 09 Feb 94 01:57 To : All Subj : Potassium Sorbate? ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Looking through my wine recipes, I noticed that one of them called for potassium sorbate. I know it's used to keep fermentation from re-starting once you have a stable wine, but unfortunately, the recipe was for a 5 gallon batch. I am only making 1 gallon batches so far, and I was wondering if anyone could give me their ideas on how much potassium I should add per gallon of wine. It's really not practical to use 1/5th of what the recipe calls for. (It says to use 1/4 oz, and I don't have a scale that will deal with grams.. ;-) Also, I've just started using bentonite to clear up my wines, and I was wondering how anyone got this stuff to mix in? It calls for 2 tblspns. to 1/4 cup of warm water, then says to add this solution to the wine. OK, I added the bentonite to the water, and I got a mass vaguely resembling clay. I had to add it to the carboy in chunks. (Which, by the way, did NOT mix in.) Any ideas? Thanks. -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.3a mQCNAirnibQAAAEEAL0yza6aTPH7EvDz3QdnkUmM2GeeJ+HVJKyThKSGP1GWpMfX aFpJGSjh2acxmI5/MYfERjjdw6aTASTVtiHVUoy77LVJRwtU2yNsnYYcfnAcnVbg d4NMV21rIIv66aSzvA5/dsaspnFL7yVbV3xc3YiSxnxLTXvFu/LOrmXerVG5AAUR tCJFdGhhbiBQbGFjZSA8ZXRoYW5AYWdvcmEucmFpbi5jb20+iQBFAgUQLT3UlJ7E xgoz0m6BAQGUwAGAgp/wcF9OkKRmSftvu518BZ9lOsBBkK23jSSLQr75OLC41t4i efJhS/lK5fJ3LuEJtCNFdGhhbiBQbGFjZSA8MToxMDUvNDcwQGZpZG9uZXQub3Jn Pg== =p7f2 -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --- FMail 0.96â * Origin: *\-\Irillian bye the See/-/* Estacada, OR (1:105/470) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 10 of 11 From : William H. Notation 1:141/1147 Fri 11 Feb 94 15:27 To : Verona Leslie Subj : more on sediment ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Verona - [VL] for.... I just should rush the process.... I hope that was supposed to read "shouldn't rush" . [VL] product to others.... or take out..... The red wine gets very [VL] merky. I'm not running the red through a filter. Is this a [VL] necessity for red wine? All our red wine looks heavy. The one [VL] blush I made, had the sediment similar to the white. I wouldn't consider filtering except as a last resort, but I am not an expert on techique. I know that a couple of the intermediate sized wineries I've been in do filter at some point. Anyways, how long do you take for primary fermentation, secondary fermentation, and "rest" before actually bottling? Other factors that impact sediment could include use of yeast nutrients and temperature. In regards to the red, I found that it took a fair while for them to get crystal clear at a low temp (basement) while a couple bottles that ended up upstairs never cleared completely. Oh well, I'm trying to keep my typing to short bursts . All for now. Bests - Bill --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: Black Brier Brewery BBS - Wolcott, CT U.S.A. 203-879-9891 (1:141/1147) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 6 of 10 From : Verona Leslie 1:251/29 Thu 17 Feb 94 00:23 To : Marc Richard Subj : more on sediment ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ MR=}I dont understand the fuss over filtering. I filter my wines with a =}Buon Vino filter made in Toronto. There fairly inexpensive at =}apprx. 139$ Canadian. The avantages are numerous. You can cellar =}you're wines without the accumulation of mud in the bottom of the =}bottle. You dont have to excuse yourself from the table to =}secretly decante you're wines, resulting in waste. =}Furthermore I haven't noticed any changes in taste or lost of =}character from the wine. So I think its a good investment for =}anybody making a half decent product. Gosh, I don't find this boring at all! I have been having a horrid time with sediment! I like to keep my wine in bottles, and save some, just for the right occasion. When I noticed I was adding this extra to the bottles, I was very disappointed. Many think that I am just bottle too soon. Some thought I was disturbing the sediment while racking and before the bottleing process (this I proved wrong!). But I still have sediment! This Buon Vino filter.... is it gravity run? Let me know more..... Verona * SLMR 2.0 * --T-A+G-L-I+N-E--+M-E-A+S-U-R+I-N-G+--G-A+U-G-E-- --- WM v3.01/93-0965 * Origin: The DryWell. Lake Fletcher NS (902)860-2446 (1:251/29.0) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 7 of 10 - 4 From : Mike Brown 1:342/47 Wed 16 Feb 94 22:02 To : Verona Leslie Subj : Making Wine ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ RE: The sediment in the wine... I have about two or three inches in the primary, about a quater to a half inch in the secondary carboy, sometimes I rack again into another carboy where I get a paper thin layer of sediment. I've never had any sediment that I've noticed in the bottles. If you do, I'd have to assume that something is wrong. Perhaps you didn't rack the wine or maybe you bottled too soon. I leave the wine in the primary for about a week, rack into a carboy with airlock and leave it for three to five weeks to clear. If it still needs a bit of clearing, I'll rack again and leave it for a couple of weeks (that's what I meant by giving it time to do its thing). When it has cleared and there's no more sediment being deposited, I bottle. Beer comes in so many varieties, it's almost impossible to make them all, don't be afraid to try a new style, you may find you like it better than what you've had before. --- WM v3.10/92-0210 * Origin: The BORG! BBS Edmonton, AB (403)425-5793 (1:342/47.0) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 8 of 10 - 5 + 9 From : Mike Brown 1:342/47 Wed 16 Feb 94 21:56 To : Darryl Minsky Subj : bottles ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ I've made several 28-day kits and a couple of 5 gallons-in-a-box grape juice. The 28 day stuff goes pretty fast and I put it in the one litre green PET bottles, but the 100% grape juice I put in nice bottles, with foil caps a nd nice labels. I've had reasonable success with the California Connoiseur and European Select brands of kits, try em. --- WM v3.10/92-0210 * Origin: The BORG! BBS Edmonton, AB (403)425-5793 (1:342/47.0) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 12 of 15 - 2 From : Derrick Chapman 1:3613/8 Sat 19 Feb 94 07:29 To : Victor Sansoucie Subj : hello ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ > allot of the "old timers" tell me that making a wine > from concentrate > (which is what I use for the most part) is not REAL > wine making. The > only way to make wine, so I'm told, is to smash a > grape and let it sit. "...in the snow, uphill both ways...." Old timers trying to one-up everyone around them. That's like saying you don't live in a real house unless you grew the trees, made the bricks, and put it together all by yourself. Concentrates produce a more consistent end result than an amateur self-grown, self-smashed grapes. Consistency is desirable if you intend to reproduce a particularly good wine. Having said that, I'm about to plant a few grape vines in my garden. Most of the yield will go into wine. But I will still continue to make almost all of my wine from concentrate, because I want my Chablis to taste like a Chablis. --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: Don't take reality *personally*! (1:3613/8) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 29 of 29 From : Victor Sansoucie 1:141/545 Thu 24 Feb 94 09:03 To : Verona Leslie Subj : Making Wine ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ .....sorry to stick my nose in..... On 02-20-94 Verona Leslie wrote to Mike Brown... VL> VL> Now, this is definitely the difference. I have been bottleing VL> once my SG has stablized, not the test of time..... Most of VL> my VL> wine is bottled in 4 weeks. Some I have left until six weeks. VL> I think I will leave it longer the next time. Thanks for the VL> encouragement! I have found that TIME is a step in wine making that can not be overlooked. I bottle only after one full year. When the SG has stablized I rack into another carboy and put the air lock on for about another month, then rack again into a carboy and cork it. from here I rack when I see a little "stuff" on the bottem of the carboy..then its in the carboy corked off for ageing... Sometime i still get a "dusting" in the bottels. But I can live with that..;-) vic- ___ * OFFLINE 1.54 * Save the Planet --- Maximus/2 2.01wb * Origin: XanSoft Development Support BBS (1:141/545) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 24 of 24 From : Joan Johnston 1:340/307 Mon 21 Feb 94 21:28 To : Jim Mitchell Subj : Tradition Metheglin (recipe from 1658) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ In a message to Joan Johnston <01-28-94 08:11> Jim Mitchell wrote: JM> JJ> Has anyone out there made Metheglin, sort of a spiced JM> How about a recipie? Here is a recipe from *Natural Magick* by Giambattista della Porta, 1658: The drink in Pannonia, Poland and England is more plesant and wholesome then many wines are; it is made of twenty pound of good honey, and of water one hundred and twenty pound, skimming it till all comes to eighty pound, which being cold and tunned up into a wine vessel, put in leaven of bread six ounces, or as much as will serve to make it work, and purifie it self, and withal put into a bag, that hangs and may be put into the liquor, and not touch the bottom, of Cinnamon, granes of Paradise, Pepper, Ginger, Cloves two drams, one hand full of Elder flowers: let them stand in a wine Cellar all the Winter, in Summer let them fourty dayes in the Sun, till they taste like wine, and the unplesant taste of the honey be gone. But it will be more plesant if you add a third part of wine. Good luck with this one! Granes of Paradise might be allspice, or at least that was my guess. Any ideas? (: jj --- FMail 0.92 * Origin: Shadowfax BBS Sidney BC Canada (604)-656-5612 (1:340/307) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 24 of 25 From : Joan Johnston 1:340/307 Mon 21 Feb 94 21:28 To : Jim Mitchell Subj : Tradition Metheglin (recipe from 1658) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ In a message to Joan Johnston <01-28-94 08:11> Jim Mitchell wrote: JM> JJ> Has anyone out there made Metheglin, sort of a spiced JM> How about a recipie? Here is a recipe from *Natural Magick* by Giambattista della Porta, 1658: The drink in Pannonia, Poland and England is more plesant and wholesome then many wines are; it is made of twenty pound of good honey, and of water one hundred and twenty pound, skimming it till all comes to eighty pound, which being cold and tunned up into a wine vessel, put in leaven of bread six ounces, or as much as will serve to make it work, and purifie it self, and withal put into a bag, that hangs and may be put into the liquor, and not touch the bottom, of Cinnamon, granes of Paradise, Pepper, Ginger, Cloves two drams, one hand full of Elder flowers: let them stand in a wine Cellar all the Winter, in Summer let them fourty dayes in the Sun, till they taste like wine, and the unplesant taste of the honey be gone. But it will be more plesant if you add a third part of wine. Good luck with this one! Granes of Paradise might be allspice, or at least that was my guess. Any ideas? (: jj --- FMail 0.92 * Origin: Shadowfax BBS Sidney BC Canada (604)-656-5612 (1:340/307) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 27 of 29 - 24 From : Tony Quinn 1:202/1004 Wed 23 Feb 94 04:55 To : Joan Johnston Subj : Tradition Metheglin (recipe from 1658) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ > In a message to Joan Johnston <01-28-94 08:11> Jim Mitchell > wrote: > > JM> JJ> Has anyone out there made Metheglin, sort of a > > Good luck with this one! Granes of Paradise might be allspice, > or at least that was my guess. Any ideas? (: jj > Grains of Paradise - "west african spice, related to cardomom. Very sharp peppery taste with spruce like aroma. A mild stimulant too." Cheers Tony --- Opus-CBCS 1.73a * Origin: HOMEBREW - IT ONLY KILLS THE WEAK BRAIN CELLS (1:202/1004.0) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 65 of 67 From : WALT WOERNER 1:266/87 Mon 07 Mar 94 22:50 To : KEVIN PRATT Subj : Raisins ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ -> -=> Quoting Kevin Cavender to All <=- -> -> KC> Has anyone out there made a raisin wine, and if so, how was it? -> -> I've had some, although it was more of a beer than a wine. The guy -> who made it was really interested in high alcohol, rather than taste, -> and he succeeded quite well. Rasins are basically concentrated sugar -> without much other character, although they do add a sort of vinous -> flavor, and some tannins from the skin. -> -> IMHO, they are well worth adding to a fruit wine, like plum or pear. -> -> Kev. -> -> ... The four food groups; instant, concentrated, microwave, & take ou -> --- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR] -> * Origin: DATAMAZE (1:203/100 RAISINS ADD SOME BODY AND FLAVOR AS WELL AS ADDED SUGAR AND TANIN AND CAN REALLY POLISH UP A WINE SUCH AS ELDERBERRY PARTICULARILY IF YOU ARE USING DEHYDRATED BERRIES. THEY DO HAVE THEIR PLACE IN WINE MAKING. WALT --- GOMail v1.2 [92-0393] * Origin: fidonet (1:266/87) Herbal Wines Nicholas Morcinek One of the many pleasures of a life in the country is the abundance of free food and the makings of fine drink. Sitting here at my desk, glass of Dandelion wine in hand, the golden glow of the flickering firelight passing through the pale amber nectar drifts my mind back to the Spring and the picking and preparation that led to this magic moment. Anyone who has ever made their own wine or beer will understand my feelings but nowadays of course, wine nearly always refers to a Chateau produced store bought liquid, made from grapes grown in some exotic far away land. However until very recently, many other varieties of fruit and even flowers were used by enterprising brewers. Dandelion, Red Clover, Rosemary and Rose flowers were all used and all have their own distinctive nose, flavour and effect Herbs were used for their traditional medicinal values, the wine-making process being me rely the method of preservation. Dandelion for the digestion and liver Cowslip to help with sleep Clover flowers as a tonic and mild euphoriant These herb wines are very simply made, with minimal amounts of time and equipment and once tried and successfully imbibed, they can become an integral part of your routine and life style. After all, what better way is there to take your medicine than in a glass of fragrant ambrosia? Hoping that I've caught your interest, (excuse me while I pour myself an other glass!), perhaps you'd like to give flower wines a try. Here to help you on your way is my own tried, and very well tested, recipe. Ingredients: Two quarts of Red Clover or Dandelion flower-heads. (Or any other type of edible/medicinal flower. Good ones to try are Calendula, Rose, Violet, Elderflowers, etc; Use your own judgement, the recipe is good for almost any combination of flowers and herbs). One Kilo of sugar & 3 lemons. Four ounces un-coated raisins or sultanas. One packet Champagne type wine yeast. You will also need some equipment, most of which can be found in the kitchen, viz: One, two or three gallon container, (stainless steel,earthenware, glass or un-chipped enamel). A one gallon glass flagon,Fermentation lock, campden table and syphon tube. (These can be obtained quite inexpensively from any home-brewing store). Now for the...Method: Pick the flowers on a sunny morning after the dew has dried. They are best picked after several days of full sun but Mother Nature is not always so obliging. Choose only the best flowers and discard all green parts at the base of the flowers. (They will make the wine bitter). Collect two full quarts of flowers for each gallon you wish to make. (This is a good job to give to the kids on a sunny Sunday afternoon. You won't see them for at least an hour.) It is very important that you collect only from areas that have not been sprayed with garden or agricultural pest sprays. Avoid all roadside flowers as they contain high levels of pollutants. It is important before starting in the kitchen to ensure that all the implements and containers used are scrupulously clean. Make up a sterilizing solution using the campden tablets, (follow the instructions on the pack) and then thoroughly rinse and clean everything you intend to use. This is the most important operation in home wine making, get it right and your wines turnout perfectly every time, screw-up and your friends will find all sorts of reasons for why they can't pop over to watch the game, join the barbecue, etc; etc; Anyway, we are digressing. Back to the wine. Clean the flowers of insects and dirt and place them into the largest container. Add the juice from the three lemons and the washed raisins or sultanas, and immediately pour over them six pints of boiling water. Stir it all up with a sterilized spoon, cover the container with a sterilized lid and leave to stand for twenty four hours. Next day, lift up the lid and take a peek at the dead flowers and other bits, floating in the water. Hmmm...Give it all a good stir and then strain out the liquid into a clean sterilized container. Rinse out your original container with some sulphite solution and then immediately pour the strained liquid back in. Add the sugar and two pints of boiling water, stirring well so as to dissolve the sugar, and then add the yeast, which has been prepared beforehand as instructed on the package. Stir it again, cover and put it away in a warm spot where the temperature stays around 70-80 degrees. Now forget all about it for one month. The month has passed and you rush like the wind to take a look at your wine. Urgghh!! It smells weird and looks weirder, but don't worry, every thing should work out fine. This is where the syphon, flagon and fermentation lock come into the picture. First sterilize all your equipment with a sulphite solution and rinse thoroughly. Then syphon the contents of your brewing bin into the flagon. This will give you your first taste, but don't despair it gets much better! Set up the fermentation lock as per the manufacturer's instructions, pop it on top of the flagon and now take it back to that warm out of the way place where you hid it before. Now comes the hardest part of the whole show. You have to forget all about this big bottle of fermenting nectar for at least six months. Don't be tempted to peek inside, smell or God forbid! taste your new concoction. Don't even think about it! That day is still in the far future. Six months have passed. November arrives and the nights are getting longer. Remember the wine?? It's now ready to be bottled. You'll need about six or seven bottles for each gallon. Use only those bottles that are designed to hold pressure, i.e. Champagne or sparkling wine bottles, even those thick heavy old-fashioned cola bottles. Use a sulphite solution to sterilize the bottles, corks and caps, and using a sterilized syphon tube, carefully syphon the clear liquid from the flagon into the bottles without disturbing the sediment in the flagon. Tastes pretty good now eh! To make your wine just a little sparkling add no more than a half teaspoon of sugar to each bottle. Seal the bottles well and let them stand in a warm place for three days. Then place them in the coolest part of the house and wait six more weeks. It will then be just about ready to drink. Of course like many wines it will taste better if left longer, ( about a year is best). But of course we're all only human and so must inevitably try out the fruits of our labour. Invite around your true friends, break out the best glasses and then carefully open your first delicately cooled bottle, without disturbing the sediment on the bottom. Pour carefully into each glass, filling them all in one delicate movement, again so as not to disturb the sediment. Sit back, raise your glass in a toast and sip this delightful ambrosia. Revel in the complements and congratulations of your friends, for they are truly deserved. And think of the coming Spring and the fifteen gallons that you plan to brew. Good luck!!! Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 16 of 16 - 10 From : Ron Rompen 1:221/421 Sat 19 Feb 94 10:15 To : Marc Richard Subj : Ice Wine ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ I recall reading SOMEWHERE about ice wine.....can't recall the exact reference, but here's the little that I do recall. When you pick your grapes, leave some on the vine (not a whole lot, but enough for one crushing)......wait patiently, and HOPEFULLY, you will have a night of freezing temperatures before the grapes fall off by themselves. When you find that the grapes have been covered with a thin film of ice, then it is time to pick them......go through all the normal steps of winemaking, and hope for the best. One of the reasons ice wine is so expensive is that it works VERY rarely......perhaps 1 time in 10 (so I have been told). Good luck....the successful result will make you forget all the failures:) Ron --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: Bonfire BBS "K-W's Alternative BBS" (1:221/421) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 47 of 49 - 16 + 48 From : Mark Taylor 1:153/733 Tue 22 Feb 94 22:28 To : Marc Richard Subj : Ice Wine ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ The Secret to a good ice wine Marc, is the botritus on the grapes. The longer you leave the grapes on the vine the more raisin you get, the more sugar, the a better chance of getting botritus happening, (this is the once in ten year thing...the botritus). Even without botritus, you can make ice wine. Just make a late harvested wine and freeze the grapes. I have watched a harvest of icewine before and the grapes have to be chipped out of the ice. My time appears to be up Marc...more to come later. --- Maximus/2 2.01wb * Origin: The CAGE, Vancouver, B.C. Canada (604)261-2347 (1:153/733) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 48 of 49 - 47 From : Mark Taylor 1:153/733 Tue 22 Feb 94 22:39 To : Marc Richard Subj : Ice Wine ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Now that I have another moment, back to ice wine. You will probably be disappointed with the results of just freezing grapes to make ice wine, I do know of a couple of wine makers in CA who tried it, but they already had the grapes in the perfect conditions for making ice wine on the vine, but didn't want to wait for hell to freeze over, so they picked the grapes, put them in a big warehouse and froze them. (personally I think the hot tub would have worked as well, depending on the company). Because of your location, you might be trying the Inniskillin ice wine, not bad, and there are a few other good Canadian ice wines around, don't bother with the Bright's or any other of the commercial plonk, maybe try the Gerringer Brothers if it's available to you. These wines are all priced about the same, so you should probably try corking some German Eisewine since they invented it. Once again you're spending the same if not more money though. You might want to try the Covey Run ice wine from Washington State which you should be able to pick up for $22.00 CDN there, it's not bad. Last but not least, you will probably like any good dessert wine with a little botritus, (i.e. any late harvested wine) as much as if not more than an ice wine. They can be found cheaper than ice wine. Some wines that might be available through ONT LCB - Ch. St. Jean Late Harvest Reisling (CA), also try a couple of Sauternes (these need time so try the Riessac which matures before any other Sauternes).. I guess I'm rambling, sorry didn't mean to write an essay. Later --- Maximus/2 2.01wb * Origin: The CAGE, Vancouver, B.C. Canada (604)261-2347 (1:153/733) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 59 of 63 - 50 + 60 From : Jim Mitchell 1:353/211 Mon 21 Feb 94 18:57 To : Marc Richard Subj : Ice Wine ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Ice wine cannot be made from concentrate. An ice wine is made by picking grapes that are frozen on the vine. I believe the temp. has to be 9 or 10 degrees below zero. The grapes are then crushed and pressed while still frozen. That way, you get a very very sweet juice from the grapes although, you do not get much of it. Waiting for the grapes to freeze on the vine also means that they dry out a lot on the vine as well again adding to the amount of sugars left in the grapes. It is the combination of the dehydrated grapes and frozen water that does not go into the grape juice that produces the superior flavour of the ice wines and also ensures that they will be a sweet wine with lots of alcohol. As you can see, unless you grow your own grapes you cannot hope to produce an ice wine at home. You could of course try freezing your concentrate and remove the ice that forms on top. That would give you a sweeter juice and MIGHT work to a certain extent (pure suposition here). I made maple syrup while I was living on Vancouver Island and we used to freeze the sap to increase the sugar concentration of the syrup that way. The sugar does not seem to freeze into the ice coating. We would freeze the sap and throw away the ice as a layer formed on top. May be worth a try...... Goodluck. --- Maximus/2 2.01wb * Origin: The Isle of Lucy BBS (1:353/211) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 60 of 63 - 59 + 62 From : Jim Mitchell 1:353/211 Mon 21 Feb 94 19:07 To : Ron Rompen Subj : Ice Wine ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ RR> I recall reading SOMEWHERE about ice wine.....can't recall the exact RR> reference, but here's the little that I do recall. RR> When you pick your grapes, leave some on the vine (not a whole lot, but RR> enough for one crushing)......wait patiently, and RR> HOPEFULLY, you will have a RR> night of freezing temperatures before the grapes fall off by themselves. RR> When you find that the grapes have been covered with a thin film of ice, RR> then it is time to pick them......go through all the normal steps of RR> winemaking, and hope for the best. Close.. They make quite a bit of ice wine around here. The grapes will not fall off the vine. They can be left on to dehydrate all winter if you like. They are then crushed and squeezed while frozen. RR> One of the reasons ice wine is so expensive is that it works VERY RR> rarely......perhaps 1 time in 10 (so I have been told). Good luck....the It always works if the grapes freeze. The reason for the expense is that the combination of freezing and dehydration means you get precious little juice from your grapes. Jim --- Maximus/2 2.01wb * Origin: The Isle of Lucy BBS (1:353/211) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 62 of 63 - 60 + 63 From : Jim Mitchell 1:353/211 Mon 07 Mar 94 18:32 To : Mark Taylor Subj : Ice Wine ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Mark Taylor wrote in a message to Marc Richard: MT> Just make a late harvested wine and freeze the grapes. I MT> have watched a harvest of icewine before and the grapes have MT> to be chipped out of the ice. Not around here they don't. The grapes are only picked once the temperature gets down to about 7degrees below 0 C. They are then crushed while still frozen. That fact means that most of the water remains in the grape and the juice is VERY sweet. So sweet in fact that all the sugar cannot ferment making the resulting wine end up around a 3 or 4 at least in sweetness and very high in alcohol. Leaving the grapes on the vine this long also means that the grapes do loose a lot of moisture as well. One year around here it never got cold enough to freeze the grapes and come spring the grapes were eventually just picked and crushed (almost raisins). The resulting wine (what little there was) was very very flavourful and expensive. With good ice wines costing about $50. a bottle this stuff was way beyond my means. Jim --- * Origin: The Isle of Lucy BBS on OS/2 (1:353/211) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 69 of 69 - 63 From : William H. Notation 1:141/1147 Thu 17 Mar 94 23:04 To : Jim Mitchell Subj : Ice Wine ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ * In a message to Marc Richard, on 03-13-94, Jim Mitchell said: [JM] Around here they pick the grapes at -5C or so. They then [JM] crush them before it warms up so that only the heavily [JM] sugared juice comes out. [JM] Raisins are too dry already to use. If you attempt it [JM] at all I would use a wine grape and freeze it but since [JM] they allow the grapes to stay on the vine until they freeze [JM] there and also dehidrate your product cannot come close. Jim - For the last while, I have been following the discussion in this echo regarding ice wine production. Of course, I figure I might as well just barge right in . The key to ice wine seems to be grapes with a reduced water content. However, how the water is removed is important. The cold temperature causes ice crystals to form within the grape thus concentrating the sugar and flavour in the juice. Too rapid a freeze and the ice crystals would be too small to effectively separate from the remaining juice. (IMO) Since the grapes are outdoors and exposed to the elements, dehydration is a factor as you mentioned. This dehydration would be due to (atleast) two factors: dryer, "winter" air; and likely stronger and more frequent winds. Assuming I have hit upon the key factors in producing these grapes, there is a process which could simulate the effects of mother nature. Ocean Spray has been using extremely cold air to freeze cranberries while retaining much of their texture and minimizing fruit damage. The berries are released into the jets of cold air and by the time they exit the duct, they are frozen and "sprayed" from the duct into storage freezers like shot from a shotgun barrel. If we were to increase the temperature (so as to promote the growth of larger ice crystals) and hold the grapes in the air stream longer (to increase the drying effect) and finally dump the grapes directly into a refridgerated press, we should be able to produce grape juice that is comparable to the "ice wine" juice. Any comments? If you're interested (or anyone else), we could discuss the specific design of this system. Obviously, it would be best suited for a commercial application due to economies of scale. I'm sure I'll hear from the purists out there that say this is "cheating Mother Nature" and I tend to agree. However, I find the technology rather interesting. Bests - Bill --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: Black Brier Brewery BBS - Wolcott, CT U.S.A. (1:141/1147) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 17 of 25 - 11 From : Gary Cox 1:3603/2013 Sun 20 Feb 94 10:47 To : Chris Peters Subj : Peach/Plum Wines ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ > I am an old hand at homebrewing who is expanding out into making his own >wine. I am hoping the people here can give me a little info on how to make P >and Peach wine and where do I go to get the supplies. I also need any recipe >you may have on the above and wish to share (gee, not asking for much >huh ;-) ) Any and all help is really appreciated. Also what books would you >people recommend on winemaking?? Thanks a bunch in advance. Chris, I would think that the place where you bought your home brewing supplies would have all of the equipment to brew wine, I know mine does. However if you are using a mail order supplier, they may not be into wine. Get the purple booklet called "Winemaker's Recipe Handbook" by Raymond Massaccesi. In it, there are all of the recipes you want from the common to the ridiculous, Red wines to parsnip wine. There are things like Potato (potatoe for all you Dan Quail fans) {I know I spelled his name wrong},onion,beet, and coffee. Yes, plum and peach are there. I bought this booklet from my local brew shop for US$3.00 You might call them at (813) 546-9117 or write them at: Winemaker's Pantry 4599 Park Blvd. Pinellas Park, FL 34665 Ask for one of their catalogues. Darlene and Bruce are great people and are willing to help any newby get started. They want your return business. --- * OLX 1.51a * Hey! This keyboard smells like a brewery! --- FidoPCB v1.4 beta * Origin: Mercury Opus * 10 Gigs/1200 Confs * 813-321-0734 (1:3603/20) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 31 of 31 - 22 From : Rick Duff 1:226/600 Sun 27 Feb 94 10:14 To : Victor Sansoucie Subj : concentrates ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ <<***** On 2/21/94, VICTOR SANSOUCIE wrote to DERRICK CHAPMAN: *****>> VS> I've read that it takes three to five years before a new vine VS> will give you a good wine grape. VS> good thing come to thoughs who wate....;-) Howdy! General rule of thumb on wine grapes are: 1st and 2nd year, no grapes (pinch off if they try to produce) 3rd year 50% crop 4th year full crop (this is taking into consideration that you had no drought or flood type years) 6th-7th year, first good quality grapes. rick.duff@asacomp.com --- þ VbReader 2.01 #NR þ Opposite of Pro is Con, Opposite of PROgress,CONgress? --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'e' * Origin: ASA CompuHelp "We're A Step Ahead" (614)476-4058 (1:226/600) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 75 of 76 - 73 + 76 From : Mike Brown 1:342/47 Sun 13 Mar 94 22:07 To : Marc Richard Subj : hello ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ MR:Actually wine is the only escape I get from my girlfriends insatisfiable :libido... I grew up in Quebec... I sure miss that Quebecois humour. MR:Just kidding. I think its the other way around. :Anyways none of you're business what happens a mile of the Quebec border :What are we talking about. MR:Does it say 100% grape juice. Yes. 100% varietal juice (except for sterilant chemicals - probably sulphites; but then, the commercial wineries use those too). MR:Lots of chemicals go into the making of concentrates. They do use chemicals, but I wouldn't say "a lot". No more than the commercial wineries do for sterilization. :I recently spoke to an oenologist from Montreal, that just finished :fixing a bad set of grapes imported from Italy. The concentrates I use are made from California grapes for the most part. I wouldn't be surprised if they were actually concentrated at a factory close to the vineyards. It's a lot cheaper to ship a concentrate to Canada than to ship the grape juice, then concentrate it here. MR:What I'm getting at is, do you really think, any good farmer would send :his grapes to the concentrator. Only the rotted stuff at the end of the :season that have little or no value. The grapes are not grown by a "farmer", they are grown on vast acreages owned and operated by the large wine making corporations. They do use their prime grapes to make their own wine, and use the _SLIGHTLY_ lower quality grapes for making concentrates. I really believe that the quality of the grapes made into concentrates are as good, if not better, than the grapes you use to make wine. The best grapes are used by the wineries, what's left they either make into concentrate or sell to you. By the time you receive them, they're no longer as fresh as the ones sent to the crusher to make concentrate. MR:How can a concentrate sell for 38$ or less, and still yield more then :the original grapes from California. Like I said before, your grapes have to shipped with a good deal of handling to get them to you still somewhat fresh and not smashed to bits. My concentrate is made only a few miles from the vineyard, then can be shipped easily in bulk tankers without any degradation in quality. This results in savings. By the way, most of my concentrates are in the $40 to $45 range. Don't get me wrong, Marc. I'm not knocking the art of making wine from grapes. I've tasted a number of such wines and the worst was good, the best was superb. I just can't see myself going to all that trouble (and I _do_ think your way is more trouble than mine) when I can make a high quality product from concentrate. The next time I raise a glass of my wine I'll drink a toast to you. Bonne Sante, M. Richard! ;-) * SLMR 2.1a * Pieces of eight, pieces of nine... parroty error --- WM v3.10/92-0210 * Origin: The BORG! BBS Edmonton, AB (403)425-5793 (1:342/47.0) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 76 of 76 - 75 From : Mike Brown 1:342/47 Mon 14 Mar 94 22:38 To : Jim Mitchell Subj : hello ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ JM:Get the crushed grapes if you can.. Far superior product and :around here, it costs less than buying the concentrate. ^^^^^^^^^^^ where's "here"? Your Origin doesn't say. Around here (Edmonton, Alberta, Canada) the 23 litre bags of juice are about $15-$25 more than the concentrates. I agree the whole juice does a better job than the concentrates, but the extra cost makes it harder to justify. As an aside to all readers of this echo... I'd like to propose that we all start including our locations in our messages so they make more sense. What say you all? * SLMR 2.1a * Mike Brown >> Edmonton, Alberta, Canada --- WM v3.10/92-0210 * Origin: The BORG! BBS Edmonton, AB (403)425-5793 (1:342/47.0) Ä [21] Fidonet: HOME_COOKING (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ HOME_COOKING Ä Msg : 72 of 207 From : Sam Lefkowitz 1:229/15 Thu 13 Apr 95 08:41 To : All Subj : Kosher Wines *CR* ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ [*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*] [*] [*] [*] BLITZ RADIO REZEPT [*] [*] vom S.S.Mein Kind [*] [*] [*] [*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*] -Begin Recipe Export- QBook version 1.00.14 Title: Kosher Doesn't Mean Sweet Keywords: Wines, Text KOSHER DOESN'T MEAN SWEET ========================= The term "kosher wines" used to be an oxymoron. They were sweet and syrupy, and tasted like alcoholic grape juice. These wines still exist as Manischewitz (18 on the (*) LCBO's sugar scale) and Mogen David ( a mere 15). In comparison, the sweetest port is 11 on the scale. There is no Talmudic injunction that says kosher wine has to be sweet. Today, the top producers in Israel, California and Europe are using the noble grapes (Chardonnay, Cabernet, Sauvignon and the like) to produce fine dry wines that are also kosher. To be kosher, a wine must be under rabbinic supervision. Currently at Vintages there are several kosher wines worthy of the Passover table. HAGAFEN WHITE TABLE WINE 1993: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ (Can.$13.80) From Napa is "MEVUSHAL" - that is 100 per cent kosher. It has a soft peach-floral flavor with a hint of residual sweetness. HERZOG JOHANNISBERG LATE HARVEST RIESLING 1991: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A medium-sweet dessert wine from California (Can.$9.70 half-bottle) is kosher but not MEVUSHAL. YARDEN FROM ISRAEL: ================== Yarden of Israel offers two white varietals. CHARDONNAY 1993: (Can.$14.95) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Chardonnay has a spicy-apple-lemon taste with a toasty finish. SAUVIGNON BLANC 1993: (Can.$13.75) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Sauvignon Blanc is elegant with grassy, green bean and green pepper flavors, very true to the grape. YARDEN: CABERNET SAUVIGNON 1991 (Can.$16.95) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ In red, Yarden does a Cabernet Sauvignon which has a herbaceous blackcurrent and bell pepper flavor, very much in the California style. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - On general listing, the Carmel wines from Israel are MENVUSHAL. In whites, there's FRENCH COLOMBARD and SAUVIGNON BLANC (Can.$7.05 for each) and the sweet CHATEAU RICHON (Can.$6.95). There is CARMEL GRENACHE ROSE (Can.$7.10). In red, CARMEL CABERNET SAUVIGNON (Can.$7.05) is dry, but CARMEL CONCORD and SACRAMENTAL are 23 and 18 respectively on the sweetness scale. From Article: Kosher Doesn't Mean Sweet by Tony Aspler Published: Toronto Star - april 5, 1995 -End Recipe Export- Log Of Sam Lefkowitz (S.S. Mein Kind) - Cheers and a Knish! (from The Cranky Computerist) . =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= . = sam.lefkowitz | "It ought to be spring everyday. = . = @canrem.com | Every day we ought to wake up brand new." = . = North York, Ont.| - Chris Stevens = . =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= --- * VbReader 2.22 #549 * I never Metamucil that didn't move me. --- QScan/PCB v1.15b / 01-0348 * Origin: FidoNet: CRS Online, Toronto, Ontario (1:229/15) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 66 of 67 - 44 From : John Soanes 1:153/920 Tue 08 Mar 94 10:19 To : William H. Notation Subj : filters and personal pre ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ On 03-02-94 William H. Notation wrote to John Soanes... WH> ... careful racking and given the wine enough time WH> to do its thing, the sediment I do get is more "hard pack" rather than WH> "powder". I haven't been able to keep wine around here long enough to have any sediment collect, it's usually gone in about a year or so. WT> Have you observed this in your wines? What size bottle/carboy do WH> you use for "bulk" storage? With my reds, the longer they stayed WH> in 5 gallon carboys (v. 750ml or 1.5l bottles), the better I liked the WH> final product. I have yet to do a "controlled" experiment to WH> investigate this so there could very well be other factors. I use 19, 23, 25, 34 and 54 litre carboys/demijohns with comparable results for all sizes. I read somewhere that wine is better off stored in volume... but I can't afford to fill a 205 litre barrel like the commercial guys... not if I want more than one type of wine. I prefer 1.5 litre bottles and good corks for my keepers. My wife and I find a 1.5 litre just right to enjoy over three meals, I use a Vacu-Vin to remove excess air from the bottle. Maybe a 23 litre bag-in-box is the answer-:) ___ * OFFLINE 1.56 * ... 186,000 miles/sec eh? So what's the speed of dark? --- Maximus/2 2.01wb * Origin: Bear Garden * Cloverdale, B.C. - Canada * (604) 574-0906 (1:153/920) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 56 of 63 From : Mike Brown 1:342/47 Sun 20 Feb 94 12:54 To : Ethan Place Subj : Potassium Sorbate? ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ EP: Also, I've just started using bentonite to clear up my wines, and I was :wondering how anyone got this stuff to mix in? It calls for 2 tblspns. to 1/ :cup of warm water, then says to add this solution to the wine. OK, I added t :bentonite to the water, and I got a mass vaguely resembling clay. I had to a :it to the carboy in chunks. (Which, by the way, did NOT mix in.) Any ideas? :Thanks. The problem is you're adding the Bentonite to the water. Try it the other way around. Start with the Bentonite in a bowl, add a couple of tablespoons of water and stir well, then another Tbsp, stir. After a while you'll have a paste the consistency of liquid honey with no lumps. At this point you can add the rest of the water, then add the whole lot into the wine. By the way, it looked like clay because it _IS_ clay (a particular, very fine type). EP:-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- :Version: 2.3a EP:mQCNAirnibQAAAEEAL0yza6aTPH7EvDz3QdnkUmM2GeeJ+HVJKyThKSGP1GWpMfX :aFpJGSjh2acxmI5/MYfERjjdw6aTASTVtiHVUoy77LVJRwtU2yNsnYYcfnAcnVbg :d4NMV21rIIv66aSzvA5/dsaspnFL7yVbV3xc3YiSxnxLTXvFu/LOrmXerVG5AAUR :tCJFdGhhbiBQbGFjZSA8ZXRoYW5AYWdvcmEucmFpbi5jb20+iQBFAgUQLT3UlJ7E :xgoz0m6BAQGUwAGAgp/wcF9OkKRmSftvu518BZ9lOsBBkK23jSSLQr75OLC41t4i :efJhS/lK5fJ3LuEJtCNFdGhhbiBQbGFjZSA8MToxMDUvNDcwQGZpZG9uZXQub3Jn :Pg== :=p7f2 :-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Question ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Why??? * SLMR 2.1a * A penny for your thoughts; $50 to act it out. --- WM v3.10/92-0210 * Origin: The BORG! BBS Edmonton, AB (403)425-5793 (1:342/47.0) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 20 of 25 From : John A. Fish 1:260/701 Mon 21 Feb 94 12:10 To : Ken Farquharson Subj : fermentation temps ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ RD>KF> At what temperature does one kill the yeast? My new warm spot RD>KF> RD>KF> since we bought a new refrigerator is in front of a hot air RD>KF> RD>KF> register . I checked a batch temp one morning and found it RD>KF>to be RD>KF> 105 degrees F. Perhaps it got up to 110 F. during the RD>KF>night. Would RD>KF> these temperatures kill my yeast? RD>I would think these kinds of tempatures would kill flavor more than it wo RD>RD>yeast! Another 10 degrees and you'll kill the alcohol too (ie. Boiling RD>RD>temp). I'm not sure if wine yeasts behave in the same way as beer, but I know that if you'r primary is too warm, although the fermentation may be fast and furi you'll be producing _way_ too much diacetyl which _will_ affect the flavor negatively. - fish -=- * SLMR 1.0 * I need some new taglines... --- GEcho 1.02+ * Origin: The FORUM BBS Ithaca, NY 607-272-1371 V.32b (1:260/701) Ä [10] Fidonet: VIN_MAISON (1:352/111) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ VIN_MAISON Ä Msg : 26 of 29 - 21 From : Victor Sansoucie 1:141/545 Wed 23 Feb 94 10:40 To : Bryan Mierau Subj : Sweetener ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ On 02-19-94 Bryan Mierau wrote to Any... BM> I have a mixture of Chokecherry wine, that is on BM> the second racking, and I figure I didn't add enough sugar BM> to the pulp when I started it. Is there any easy way of BM> adding more sugar to the wine to get the bitterness out? BM> BM> Bryan carmalize some sugar and add it "to taste" to each bottle. if you just add sugar the wine may start to ferment again. vic- ___ * OFFLINE 1.54 * Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted! --- Maximus/2 2.01wb * Origin: XanSoft Development Support BBS (1:141/545)